This is my full interview with Mark Sisson, health and fitness expert and author of the newly updated book, The Primal Blueprint.
Q: Tell me what the “Primal Blueprint” is in a nutshell?
Mark Sisson: For over 200,000 years, homo sapiens were
hunter-gatherers living in “the wild,” eating plants and animals. For the last
9,900 years, our ancestors lived on unprocessed, whole foods, with few modern
comforts. It’s only in the last 100 years that we’ve started eating
industrialized, processed food and living sedentary lives. So, we’ve got
200,000 years of eating animals and plants versus 10,000 years eating grains
versus 100 years eating mutated grains, refined sugar and vegetable oils.
The Primal Blueprint is a lifestyle whose tenets are informed
by biological evolution, traditional wisdom, and modern science to form a
healthy, sustainable, enjoyable way of being. It’s a way to eat, move, sleep,
and simply exist with our ancient genes in this modern world - taking advantage
of modern science and drawing upon lessons of our evolutionary background.
Q: You talk in your book about one being a “sugar-burning” or
a “fat-burning” person. What does that mean?
Sisson: A sugar-burner requires a steady drip of dietary sugar -
fructose and glucose - to maintain energy levels. So they can’t go long without
eating. They burn basically carbohydrate and have difficulty accessing their
stored body fat to use for energy, and in terms of weight loss, burn their fat.
A fat-burner uses both their body fat and dietary glucose for energy and end up
burning fat which leads to weight loss. Also, if a fat-burner skips a meal,
it’s okay because he can run for days on his own fat (adipose) tissue.
Q: Even though our earliest ancestors may have eaten as you
suggest in the Primal Blueprint, our more recent ancestors have been eating
grains and beans for thousands of years. Have we not adapted to this way of
eating? Asians were always thin eating their diet of rice and noodles, how do
you explain that?
Sisson: Rice is the least offensive grain. It’s basically pure
starch as opposed to something like wheat. It has no problematic lectins or plant
proteins that interfere with digestion or disrupt satiety signals to the brain.
In Asian countries they used to eat only foods like rice, meat, vegetables, all
cooked in animal fat, and every day life was active. Now diabetes, heart
disease, and obesity are on the rise because, like us, they’re eating more
wheat, sugar, and vegetable oils and moving less. And no, our bodies haven’t
evolved to catch up to our diet today.
Q: Most medical professionals regard burning ketones as a bad
thing. The Atkins diet was criticized for that in the 1970’s. Yet the Primal
diet depends on it. How do you answer them?
Sisson: They mistakenly equate ketosis with ketoacidosis. The
former is a viable physiological way of burning fat for energy. It burns
cleaner than glucose and spares necessary glucose for the brain to use. The
latter is a pathological condition that occurs when insulin isn’t around to
keep ketone production in check. Ketosis is a perfectly healthy physiological
state to dip into from time to time. Burning ketones, which isn’t the same as
being in ketosis, let alone ketoacidosis, is always occurring in a healthy
fat-burner.
Q: I have type 1 diabetes. Making ketones has always been
regarded as dangerous for people with type 1 diabetes. Is this diet viable for
people with type 1 diabetes?
Sisson: Making ketones, which leads to ketoacidosis, only occurs when
there is insufficient insulin present to regulate ketone production. Making
ketones is different than burning ketones. As long as a person with type 1
diabetes is aware of this and manages this, there shouldn’t be a problem. I get
a fair amount of feedback from people with type 1 diabetes who have had success
implementing the Primal Blueprint.
And it can help with managing the disease. I would tell any patient to
let their doctor know before undertaking any massive lifestyle change.
Q: Why do you believe eating Primal is the way we were meant
to eat?
Sisson: I tried eating “the right way” for over thirty years and
it nearly killed me. I was the paragon of fitness, a competitive marathoner and
triathlete who ate whole grains and beans and watched my red meat intake. It didn’t
work. Since I have always been a student of human evolution, I got my degree in
biology, I started thinking about health in terms of nutrition and fitness. I
did a lot of research and self-experimentation and trained tons of people,
enough to realize that the Primal way of eating works. And I’ve found it works
for just about everyone who gives it an honest try.
Q: What are people most satisfied with about the Primal
diet/lifestyle?
Sisson: That it’s not a struggle, that its seems to come
naturally once you get it. People like a lifestyle that emphasizes delicious,
fresh, wholesome food, simple and effective exercise, lots of leisure and
relaxation, good sleep and quality time with loved ones.
Q: Is there any scientific research to support this diet?
Sisson: Careful parsing of the nutritional literature is actually
the basis of many of our recommendations, but there have been several
paleolithic diet controlled studies. In one notable study by Lindberg out of
Sweden, diabetic heart disease patients were put on one of two diets: Paleo
(very similar to Primal) or
Mediterranean. Paleo allowed no dairy, no grains, and had more meat, eggs,
vegetables, and fruit than the Mediterranean diet, which was high in whole
grains, legumes, vegetables, fish, margarine and low-fat dairy. Both groups
improved, but the paleo group showed significantly greater improvements.
Q: What other eating approaches do you respect? And why?
Sisson: I like well-designed vegetarian diets. My wife was a
vegetarian for years, still is, for the most part, except for seafood, and
she’s one of the healthiest people I know. As long as you’re not eating loads
of pasta, but eating actual vegetables and plenty of eggs and quality dairy, I
think you can be very healthy as a vegetarian. I have dozens of longtime
readers who are vegetarian yet make this lifestyle work for them.
Q: Conventional wisdom says soy, beans, whole grains and
complex carbohydrates like sweet potatoes have a protective or positive
influence, yet they’re not part of a Primal diet
Sisson: There’s nothing magical about beans or grains. They have
no dietary monopoly when it comes to vitamins or minerals. Leafy greens,
cruciferous vegetables, berries, and all the other produce we can eat provide
plenty of micronutrients. Plus, many of those minerals in beans and grains
aren’t absorbed. Phytic acid, found in most beans and grains, binds to minerals
and prevents their absorption. Habitual grain eaters like birds and rats
produce phytase, the enzyme necessary to break down phytic acid - but we don’t.
So while those foods look impressive on paper, we’re not absorbing most of
their nutrients. Traditional cultures that consumed grains and beans did so
only after extensive soaking and fermentation, which improves the digestibility
and deactivated most of the phytic acid. It also takes a lot of work and I’m
just not willing to put forth that much effort.
Complex carbohydrates like sweet potatoes are not allowed on
some paleo plans but they’re allowed on the Primal plan. Roots, tubers, and other
starchy, underground plant organs can be an important part of your diet,
especially if you’re highly active and need the glucose.
Q: How do you answer your critics like Dean Ornish who has
scientifically proven that eating whole grains, and severely restricting the
consumption of animal products and dietary fat reverses heart disease?
Sisson: Dean Ornish has “scientifically proven” that avoiding
processed junk food plus daily meditation, stress-reduction therapy, regular
exercise, and a cessation of smoking tobacco results in a slight, not a major,
regression of narrowing in the coronary artery. The Ornish plan isn’t just the
diet. It’s an entire lifestyle change. Stress, lack of exercise, and smoking
are all causally related to heart disease, so you can’t focus on just the food.
I would agree with Dr. Ornish that removing processed
carbohydrates, vegetable oils, and sugar is healthy. My program does all that
too. I just disagree that removing animal products and healthy fat is a
necessary component, and he has never proven that to be the case.
Q: Do you believe people with type 2 diabetes would be better
served by this diet considering that they are three times more likely to have a
cardiovascular event, and this diet emphasizes eating saturated fat?
Sisson: Absolutely. The last reviews of the medical literature
have found that replacing carbohydrates with saturated fat does not increase
the incidence of cardiovascular disease. Plus, this diet doesn’t emphasize
saturated fat, it de-emphasizes toxic foods like gluten-grains and processed
vegetable oils that are high in omega-6 and sugar.
Q: I have followed the Primal diet now for almost six weeks
and find it takes extra time shopping to keep fresh produce in the house, and
to prepare meals. Also, since I’m not a skilled cook, I find myself cooking the
same things day after day. How successful have people been staying on the
‘Blueprint?'
Sisson: It’s highly sustainable. A massive online community has
sprung up around Paleo/Primal eating. In addition to my own cookbook, paleo
cookbooks are being released every couple of months, and there are several
dozen high quality Primal recipe blogs.
We post new recipes every Saturday and link to others every Sunday. To cut down on prep time, I
would devote a Sunday afternoon to making a week’s meals. A big pot of stew,
chili or curry, some parboiled vegetables, some sliced fruit, grilled meat that
you can simply heat up or eat cold. If you plan and prep ahead, making your own
food gets a whole lot easier.
As for produce, frozen vegetables are actually a more
economical, longer-lasting, and often more nutritious option than wilted
“fresh” produce.
Q: Do you know any cases where the Primal Blueprint hasn’t
worked?
Sisson: I’ve seen people fail because they went too low-carb
while trying to run 120 miles a week and train for a triathlon. Or because they
went overboard with the “Primal treats” made out of almond flour, honey, and
coconut oil, but I would say they were doing it wrong. I’ve never known anyone
to fail when they removed processed, industrial junk food, started sleeping
more and exercising better.
Book
Review: The Primal Blueprint gives both an
historical background on why we should be eating like our earliest ancestors
during paleolithic times and why we’re now eating like our neolithic ancestors,
and that our bodies haven’t adapted to many of these foods. Furthermore, many
of the foods we eat today, especially grains, have been genetically and
environmentally modified causing insulin resistance and inflammation, the root
causes of many of today’s lifestyle diseases. The Blueprint in the book gives
you 10 steps for reprogramming your genes to transform yourself from a
sugar-burner to a fat-burner, lose weight, heal your body and boost your
energy. Also, the Primal approach is not just a meal plan, and Sisson covers a
life system including fasting, bursts of exercise and strength training, sleep
and stress reduction.
What I
like most: The book is written very simply and is a quick, easy and fun read.
Men will probably also enjoy the cartoon-like characters Sisson uses to make
some of his points. If you choose to try the diet, there is much support and
more information on Mark’s blog, Mark’s Daily Apple. Mark’s written
hundreds of articles about going Primal and provides recipes to help on the
journey. I must also confide I like that on the Primal plan red wine and dark
chocolate, in moderation, are allowed.
Weaknesses: Mark’s enthusiasm will tell you this is a simple diet and
lifestyle, but for the average American it probably isn’t. There is some
repetition in the book and at times not as much specificity, or scientific
evidence, as I would have liked.
Take 2
and call me in the morning: With all lifestyle changes, talk to your health
care provider before beginning this program.
Personal
note: I tried the diet for six weeks. I felt fine and lost 2.5 pounds, but I
found myself constipated. I then put some complex carbohydrates back into my
diet like oatmeal and beans. Now I follow a diet in-between the Primal
Blueprint and low-carb with some complex carbs and dairy. I side with those who
say too much carbohydrate, not too much fat, is the cause of most of today’s
ills including diabetes.